Post by chucho on Aug 10, 2008 23:05:00 GMT -5
This always makes for good discussion, as it's always interesting to see what tastes people have and opinions on workers. This is based on current credentials and what they've been doing. Just don't try and tell people they are wrong like numerous Nazi ran boards. Wrestling opinion is completely subjective as beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Over Rated: Tommy Dreamer- Don't care where he's been, what he's done, that doesn't change the fact that he's been pretty un- entertaining for the past ten years. For that matter so have been ALOT of ECW guys that I'd also say are over rated: Raven, Sandman, Shane Douglas ( ooo, he can say "fuck" alot) and New Jack. Just terrible since they left ECW, in the case of Jack and Sandman, I always wonder if they would have ever gotten over anywhere outside Paul E.'s booking talents.
Batista- fucking stale and boring. I look at him as a latino Brock Lesnar, just half as talented and less mic skills. Only time I dig him is when Taker works him. Hopefully a monster heel turn is on the horizon.
Ok, I might get alot of static for this but...Chris Hero, BJ Whitmer, Claudio, Christopher Daniels, and the billion other indy workers who ripped off Jack Evan's style...don't get me wrong, I LOVE Hero and Claudio but people talk of them as being the absolute best workers, mentioned in the same breath of former indy idols like Joe, Punk, Styles and Danielson. But when I watch alot of Hero and Claudio and Whitmer and guys like Davey Andrews and Brent Albright and the such I don't feel like I'm watching two guys competing in a combat sport for survival and victory, I feel like I'm watching two talented athletes work. Do their jobs, but not go beyond to draw the crowd into it. It seems alot of today's more prominent indy workers seem more infatuated with having a MOTY candidate instead of drawing the crowd into the match based on the story being told. I'd rather watch a Hulk Hogan-Macho Man match that tells a story with a few simple holds, but has so much more emotion and crowd heat than watch extremely talented workers hit countless head drops, insane aerial moves and crazy submissions for no rhyme or reason other than have a good match. It would be great matches if these guys could take all their trees and see the forest. I mean the emotion that poured out of guys like Punk, Joe, Danielson and Homicide is what drew me to ROH wayyyy back in 2002 and now when I watch a show, I feel like I'm watching the same match, just with different workers. Its gotten to where I only want to see the Briscoes, The Age of the Fall, Steen and Generico and Aries. I guess what it really boils down to is some workers pandering to the Smark crowd a little too much on the East coast.
Amazing Red, and the SAT- the indy scene passed them up when they stopped evolving. Boring.
Indywarz-wanna see Texas wrestling's biggest circle jerk? Neither do I.
Vince Russo- the fact that this man is booking any promotion with TV exposure makes him over rated.
Under Rated: John Cena- fashionable internerd hate follows this man everywhere. Yah, the gimmick is cheesy, and his moves are plain and simple, but the man had a good to great match EVERY PPV he wrestled in 2007 (the awesome Umaga street fight at the Rumble, awesome HBK matches, a good match with Lashley of all people and the great fued with RKO) he's the best big match performer in all the continent, and yah his moveset is weak, but he employs it better than anyone anywhere. A million generic indie guys can do moves that are fucking awesome, but not one of those guys can make a crowd pop the way Cena can with just a simple fist drop. To me, its not what a worker has, but how they use what they have to create a story in a match that defines that worker, not a super high spots that get alot of "ooos"and "ahhs" but other than that the crowd has little emotion tied to the match.
2 Cold Scorpio-the fuckin man. I can't understand how the big two blundered a talented black wrestler like this. He could have been alot bigger.
Daisuke Sekimoto- he and Danielson really need to hook up and declare who really is the best indy wrestler in the world!
Mistico- underrated simply because he doesn't get the exposure he really deserves.
Rexx Reed, Michael Faith, Massive- big men aren't supposed to be this good, generally speaking.
Texas trained/ indy workers- I dunno if its the tradition that is soaked into workers trained in texas or if its the trainers themselves, but the home grown talent here gets the "it" that it takes to make a match more than a match, to make it a story. Look at anything Summers does, look at the man, Mike Dell, his facial expressions are priceless, look at the way JT LaMotta draws everyone into his match and gets the crowd behind him because he is telling a story, selling the viewer an intense performance, not just dropping people on their heads for a few "oos and ahhs" that will mean nothing when the guy kicks out at one. Look at any Dusty Wolfe match where he tries to work for the piledriver. That's story telling, that is the beauty in wrestling.
Over Rated: Tommy Dreamer- Don't care where he's been, what he's done, that doesn't change the fact that he's been pretty un- entertaining for the past ten years. For that matter so have been ALOT of ECW guys that I'd also say are over rated: Raven, Sandman, Shane Douglas ( ooo, he can say "fuck" alot) and New Jack. Just terrible since they left ECW, in the case of Jack and Sandman, I always wonder if they would have ever gotten over anywhere outside Paul E.'s booking talents.
Batista- fucking stale and boring. I look at him as a latino Brock Lesnar, just half as talented and less mic skills. Only time I dig him is when Taker works him. Hopefully a monster heel turn is on the horizon.
Ok, I might get alot of static for this but...Chris Hero, BJ Whitmer, Claudio, Christopher Daniels, and the billion other indy workers who ripped off Jack Evan's style...don't get me wrong, I LOVE Hero and Claudio but people talk of them as being the absolute best workers, mentioned in the same breath of former indy idols like Joe, Punk, Styles and Danielson. But when I watch alot of Hero and Claudio and Whitmer and guys like Davey Andrews and Brent Albright and the such I don't feel like I'm watching two guys competing in a combat sport for survival and victory, I feel like I'm watching two talented athletes work. Do their jobs, but not go beyond to draw the crowd into it. It seems alot of today's more prominent indy workers seem more infatuated with having a MOTY candidate instead of drawing the crowd into the match based on the story being told. I'd rather watch a Hulk Hogan-Macho Man match that tells a story with a few simple holds, but has so much more emotion and crowd heat than watch extremely talented workers hit countless head drops, insane aerial moves and crazy submissions for no rhyme or reason other than have a good match. It would be great matches if these guys could take all their trees and see the forest. I mean the emotion that poured out of guys like Punk, Joe, Danielson and Homicide is what drew me to ROH wayyyy back in 2002 and now when I watch a show, I feel like I'm watching the same match, just with different workers. Its gotten to where I only want to see the Briscoes, The Age of the Fall, Steen and Generico and Aries. I guess what it really boils down to is some workers pandering to the Smark crowd a little too much on the East coast.
Amazing Red, and the SAT- the indy scene passed them up when they stopped evolving. Boring.
Indywarz-wanna see Texas wrestling's biggest circle jerk? Neither do I.
Vince Russo- the fact that this man is booking any promotion with TV exposure makes him over rated.
Under Rated: John Cena- fashionable internerd hate follows this man everywhere. Yah, the gimmick is cheesy, and his moves are plain and simple, but the man had a good to great match EVERY PPV he wrestled in 2007 (the awesome Umaga street fight at the Rumble, awesome HBK matches, a good match with Lashley of all people and the great fued with RKO) he's the best big match performer in all the continent, and yah his moveset is weak, but he employs it better than anyone anywhere. A million generic indie guys can do moves that are fucking awesome, but not one of those guys can make a crowd pop the way Cena can with just a simple fist drop. To me, its not what a worker has, but how they use what they have to create a story in a match that defines that worker, not a super high spots that get alot of "ooos"and "ahhs" but other than that the crowd has little emotion tied to the match.
2 Cold Scorpio-the fuckin man. I can't understand how the big two blundered a talented black wrestler like this. He could have been alot bigger.
Daisuke Sekimoto- he and Danielson really need to hook up and declare who really is the best indy wrestler in the world!
Mistico- underrated simply because he doesn't get the exposure he really deserves.
Rexx Reed, Michael Faith, Massive- big men aren't supposed to be this good, generally speaking.
Texas trained/ indy workers- I dunno if its the tradition that is soaked into workers trained in texas or if its the trainers themselves, but the home grown talent here gets the "it" that it takes to make a match more than a match, to make it a story. Look at anything Summers does, look at the man, Mike Dell, his facial expressions are priceless, look at the way JT LaMotta draws everyone into his match and gets the crowd behind him because he is telling a story, selling the viewer an intense performance, not just dropping people on their heads for a few "oos and ahhs" that will mean nothing when the guy kicks out at one. Look at any Dusty Wolfe match where he tries to work for the piledriver. That's story telling, that is the beauty in wrestling.